|
|
|
|
Group: Forum Member
Last Login: Yesterday @ 10:49:20
Posts: 196,
Visits: 1,018
|
Mike
We could develop this line of thinking quite a long way, I think.
Esoteric groups tend to be rather informal. A group might come together to meditate, but the idea of taking minutes would rarely occur to them 8-)
If freemasonry developed from a much more esoteric/spiritual platform than we have today, then that might explain why there are so few records of early speculative meetings. If their meetings were about spiritual thought and practice and they had no formal ceremonies, perhaps no ceremony at all, the "business" of the meeting would either informal or completely absent and there would be little or nothing to record.
The group formed in 1717 appear to have leaned much more towards the pragmatic, ceremonial side of things than the esoteric/spiritual thinking of Wren; perhaps the early Gtrand Lodge was a splinter group from a group led by Wren in the Royal Society. Suggestions about original esoteric roots have been made in 1 or 2 quite learned works. There's such a reference in Neville Barker-Cryer's "York Mysteries Revealed".
Seems to me that Scottish operatives were accepting speculative members earlier than they were in England. Early speculative members in England tended to be leaders of society, even royals and more mobile than most. I wonder if, around 1717, English groups looking to develop ceremonies rather than esotericism became aware of Scottish speculatives and cross-fertilised ideas with them. General Monke's soldiers came south around that time, perhaps fuelling the early military spread of freemasonry. Again, this points to a spurt in development because of the mobility of the individuals involved.
These ideas are a bit woolly, I admit, and it's not hard to pick holes in them. But even before NBC's book I was thinking think early Masonic development had elements along that line.
As for the resurgence of esoteric thinking in the mid-1800s, yes, entirely agree. That was happennig more generally, not just inside freemasonry.
S&F, Jules
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Forum Member
Last Login: 10/07/2011 06:43:06
Posts: 2,146,
Visits: 4,278
|
Bro Julian, are we speaking of the same person , General George Monk, 1st Duke Of Albemarle (1608-70)? His soldiers are believed by many, myself included, to have brought Freemasonry as we know it to England at the time of the Restoration. However he was well dead by the time of the foundation of the Moderns Grand Lodge in London in 1717
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Forum Member
Last Login: Yesterday @ 10:49:20
Posts: 196,
Visits: 1,018
|
Lauderdale (28/09/2009)
Bro Julian, are we speaking of the same person , General George Monk, 1st Duke Of Albemarle (1608-70)? His soldiers are believed by many, myself included, to have brought Freemasonry as we know it to England at the time of the Restoration. However he was well dead by the time of the foundation of the Moderns Grand Lodge in London in 1717
Hi Lauderdale
yes, same person. The move south was a little earlier than I recollected, but it doesn't alter the theory that Monk's soldiers might have brought Scottish masonic practices to England. I wonder if these might have melded with activities of some of the members of the Royal Society and morphed into what eventually became English freemasonry.
I'm mentioning theories which depend on other theories, and I don't much like the creeeping hyopthesis but it's an interesting thought to conjure with.
JS
|
|
|
|
Excellent Master
Group: Administrator
Last Login: 51 minutes ago
Posts: 2,326,
Visits: 11,768
|
stevepenny (02/12/2009)
The principle reason cited by those who would believe that Wren was not a Mason is the complete absence of any reference to Freemasonry in his biography which was penned by Christopher Wren Junior.I'd give that particular reason more consideration if he had written it himself but then I can't help remembering that Elias Ashmole's diaries consisting of his own first-hand memories mention Freemasonry twice (1646 & 1682) only in a period spanning 50 years. In fact, isn't it the case that Robert Moray's Initiation (1641) is only recorded in someone else's diary and not his own. It seems possible that 17th Century Freemasons may not have actually put as much store in their membership as we do.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
|
|
|
|
|
Group: Forum Member
Last Login: 10/07/2011 06:43:06
Posts: 2,146,
Visits: 4,278
|
Not every father discloses all of his activities to his son and vice versa. I am sure that in due time I may get to know some aspects of my own father's life that he has not disclosed to me, and I for sure have a lot of aspects of mine to which he is not privy.Freemasonry was not as organised then as it is now and possibly Sir Christopher didn't attend frequent Lodge Meetings at set times as a modern architect might well do. As they say "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
|
|
|
|
Excellent Master
Group: Administrator
Last Login: 51 minutes ago
Posts: 2,326,
Visits: 11,768
|
Just to further muddy the waters and this of course explains why historians have been loath to say for definite. The passage below states that he was already a Master 3 years before he was Initiated according to the paper above.From: 'St Paul's: The churchyard', Old and New London: Volume 1 (1878), pp. 262-274. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=45041&strquery=St Paul's Churchyard Date accessed: 16 February 2010. During the building of St. Paul's, Wren was the zealous Master of the St. Paul's Freemason's Lodge, which assembled at the "Goose and Gridiron," one of the most ancient lodges in London. He presided regularly at its meetings for upwards of eighteen years. He presented the lodge with three beautifully carved mahogany candlesticks, and the trowel and mallet which he used in laying the first stone of the great cathedral in 1675. In 1688 Wren was elected Grand Master of the order, and he nominated his old fellow-workers at St. Paul's, Cibber, the sculptor, and Strong, the master mason, Grand Wardens. In Queen Anne's reign there were 129 lodges—eighty-six in London, thirty-six in provincial cities, and seven abroad. Many of the oldest lodges in London are in the neighbourhood of St. Paul's.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
|