Masonic Forum Home Search Members Calendar Who's On Welcome Guest ( Login | Register ) Recent PostsRecent Posts Popular TopicsPopular Topics Home » General » Feminine & Co-Masonry » Dramatic Turn of Events for Co-Masonry in... 17 posts, Page 1 of 212»» Dramatic Turn of Events for Co-Masonry in... Rate Topic Display Mode Topic Options Author Message johndeejohndee Posted 21/11/2009 19:03 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: 15/06/2010 05:34 Posts: 67, Visits: 270 November 21, 2009 - Dramatic Turn of Events for Co-Masonry in Grand Orient! Masonic Justice annulled the decisions of the Grand Orient in September 2009 denying the entry of women within it. A special session of the Convent [General Assembly] could be convened.On November 20, the Supreme Court of Masonic Justice (CSJM) annulled all of the votes of the Convent of the Grand Orient held in Lyon from September 3 to 5 concerning the sexual integration of the largest French obedience, with 50,000 members. Such a decision, very rare, is linked to serious procedural errors during the consultation of the 1,200 delegates, which undermined the integrity of the vote. The partisans of the initiation of women in the Grand Orient were only 44% (compared to 49% in 2008).The Council of the Order of the Grand Orient will meet on November 26 behind closed doors ("in secret session") to decide what the consequences of this serious decision of the CSJM should be. A special session of the Convent could be convened next month. The Grand Orient could wait until the next annual general assembly of the lodges in September 2010 to have the brothers vote again on this issue that divides them, while women have already been initiated in five lodges, last spring. These sisters are now suspended, and have been asked to practice their rituals in a mixed or feminine obedience, after the vote of September 2009.Are the high dignitaries of the Grand Orient beginning to realize the devastation of the status quo on their obedience? It is always described as progressive, but its neurotic fixation on the refusal of mixed Masonry gives it an increasingly reactionary image. This is why the Council of the Order could "take a far-reaching initiative intended to settle definitively the question of the freedom of the lodges to initiate women and/or to affiliate sisters through a process of federation of liberal and adogmatic French Freemasonry." This is what one can read in the letter of the Grand Master Pierre Lambicchi to the Venerable Masters [Worshipful Masters] dated November 6, 2009, that L'Express was able to obtain. To put it clearly, the Grand Orient would be transformed into a confederation of three federations of lodges, one mixed, one feminine and one masculine. This prospect, desired for several years by former Grand Masters, has become more credible today. Post #15480 lauderdalelauderdale Posted 21/11/2009 19:21 Excellent Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 04/07/2010 12:56 Posts: 2,238, Visits: 4,269 In plain words what does this mean? Has a French Court of Law overturned the vote by GOdF in September 2009 at its Convent to refuse to allow the Initiation of Women? Does that mean that GOdF must by Law Initiate female canddiates? If not does it mean that they have now to take another vote to either allow this or to confirm their refusal? If so does the status quo persist until a new vote is taken? Post #15481 Alan CampbellAlan Campbell Posted 21/11/2009 21:47 Past Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 22/07/2010 19:44 Posts: 1,089, Visits: 1,323 I can't find anything on their website which states whether they would normally let woman into the grand orient. Is it a male only organisation and if it is i can understand why they have suspended these women. What i don't understand is why the lodges weren't suspended as well. Post #15492 lauderdalelauderdale Posted 21/11/2009 23:14 Excellent Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 04/07/2010 12:56 Posts: 2,238, Visits: 4,269 GOdF, in one of who's Lodges I have sat, is interesting in that whilst (at present) it does not Initate female Candidates it will accept them as visitors to its Lodges. Myself, Bro Cora and another female Brother in LDH were received as guests by Loge Hiram a couple of years ago now.I am still slightly puzzled as to the exact effect of the Legal Ruling posted , but I am not a Lawyer. I await the outcome of this matter with great interest. Post #15502 seekeroftruthseekeroftruth Posted 22/11/2009 19:32 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 10:11 Posts: 37, Visits: 148 In the attached link one can see a copy of the decision:http://blogs.lexpress.fr/nouvelleformule/CSJM.pdfFrom I could gather, the "Chambre suprême de justice maçonnique (CSJM)", which is internal to the GOdF and not a normal court of law, invalidated all the votes taken during the annual GOdF Convent that took place in September 2009. This decision was taken as serious procedural violations had taken place during the consulation of the 1200 delegates attending the Convent.The Big Chiefs of the GOdF are going to meet "in camera" on the 26 of November to consider the implications of this decision.Two possible ways forward can be envisaged: The questions (the resulting votes which were invalidated) can be proposed again,either by calling an extraordinary convent sometime in the near future or waiting for the next annual convent in September 2010. "Die Freimäurerei war immer" G. E. Lessing "We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go Always a little further: it may be Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea, White on a throne or guarded in a cave There lives a prophet who can understand Why men were born: but surely we are brave, Who make the Golden Journey to Samarkand." J.E. Flecker "We ought not to be embarrassed of appreciating the truth and of obtaining it wherever it comes from, even if it comes from races distant and nations different from us. Nothing should be dearer to the seeker of truth than truth itself, and there is no deterioration of the truth, nor belittling either of one who speaks it or conveys it." Al-Kindi Post #15534 Cora BCora B Posted 23/11/2009 13:08 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 12:16 Posts: 389, Visits: 887 Oh my. I'd hate to be on GOdF's Counseil Supreme at this particular point in time.It would seem this verdict declares null and void the decisions taken at this years Convent National with respect to (a) the initiation of women and / or affiliation of Sisters (as the French call us); and(b) the decisions taken pertaining to the expulsion of those involved in the initiations of the 5 female candidates last year.If memory serves me well the vote was split almost 50-50 this year (54% against initation / affiliation of women), so whatever comes of this, GOdF has a struggle on its hands.May Wisdom, Strength and Beauty guide their decisions.S&F, Cora -- International Order of Co-Freemasonry "Le Droit Humain", British Federation Lodge Light of Amen-Ra No. 717, Orient of Surbiton Lodge St Francis No. 817, Orient of Camberley Mark Lodge Nephthys No. 32, Quarries of Surbiton HRA Triangle The Hidden Glory, Vault of Surbiton Post #15582 Roy VRoy V Posted 23/11/2009 13:22 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 24/07/2010 18:25 Posts: 721, Visits: 1,170 Viewing this as an Englishman, it sounds odd they are doing this in a Convent. PM 5770Middlesex Post #15586 seekeroftruthseekeroftruth Posted 23/11/2009 14:25 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 10:11 Posts: 37, Visits: 148 Hi Roy, In effect, the word "convent" etymologically is from Latin "conventus", from "convenire", "to come together", "to assemble", from con- + venire, "to come". While I would say that the first thing that comes to mind is that of a religious community (such as a convent of nuns), it can also mean a gathering of people for the purpose of discussing issues. What is interesting is that while "convent" in English and "couvent" in French both originate from the latin "con+venire", and have the same meaning (i.e. a religious community for nuns), it appears that "convent" has been taken from English and re-introduced into the French language, in the 19th century, to specifically designate an annual general assembly (or convention) of Freemasons (source: Dictionary of the French Academy). Just shows that while French can be poetic, so is English expressive "Die Freimäurerei war immer" G. E. Lessing "We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go Always a little further: it may be Beyond the last blue mountain barred with snow, Across that angry or that glimmering sea, White on a throne or guarded in a cave There lives a prophet who can understand Why men were born: but surely we are brave, Who make the Golden Journey to Samarkand." J.E. Flecker "We ought not to be embarrassed of appreciating the truth and of obtaining it wherever it comes from, even if it comes from races distant and nations different from us. Nothing should be dearer to the seeker of truth than truth itself, and there is no deterioration of the truth, nor belittling either of one who speaks it or conveys it." Al-Kindi Post #15594 dpdp Posted 23/11/2009 15:20 Past Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 11:26 Posts: 903, Visits: 2,597 And I believe one of our side orders meets in a conventicle (?) Post #15600 Cora BCora B Posted 23/11/2009 21:56 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 12:16 Posts: 389, Visits: 887 Hi Roy, Pardon the French phraseology -- you get used to working with those terms in an international order with French roots. To give the terms their proper translation:- Convent National - National Convention (the annual general meeting) Conseil Supreme - Supreme Council Oh, and you can stop grinning now. I suspect you're pulling my leg again! S&F, Cora -- International Order of Co-Freemasonry "Le Droit Humain", British Federation Lodge Light of Amen-Ra No. 717, Orient of Surbiton Lodge St Francis No. 817, Orient of Camberley Mark Lodge Nephthys No. 32, Quarries of Surbiton HRA Triangle The Hidden Glory, Vault of Surbiton Post #15626 « Prev Topic | Next Topic » 17 posts, Page 1 of 212»» Reading This Topic Active Users: 0 (0 guests, 0 members, 0 anonymous members) Forum Moderators: TFM Admin, Mike Martin, Stu Thorpe, Tom Cherup Forum Jump... ---------------- Forum Home Search Members List Calendar Who's Online ---------------- Site Announcements |-- Announcements General |-- Greetings to our New Forumites |-- General Masonic Discussion |-- Masonic History (Legend -V- Fact) |-- Ritual - Esoteric & Symbols |-- Travellers' Diary & Dates |-- The Reading/Watching Room |-- The Appendant Degrees and Orders |-- Feminine & Co-Masonry |-- Knobs & Excrescences All times are GMT, Time now is 4:14pm Powered By InstantForum.NET v4.1.4 © 2010 Execution: 0.049. 10 queries. 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I am still slightly puzzled as to the exact effect of the Legal Ruling posted , but I am not a Lawyer. I await the outcome of this matter with great interest.
From I could gather, the "Chambre suprême de justice maçonnique (CSJM)", which is internal to the GOdF and not a normal court of law, invalidated all the votes taken during the annual GOdF Convent that took place in September 2009. This decision was taken as serious procedural violations had taken place during the consulation of the 1200 delegates attending the Convent.The Big Chiefs of the GOdF are going to meet "in camera" on the 26 of November to consider the implications of this decision.Two possible ways forward can be envisaged: The questions (the resulting votes which were invalidated) can be proposed again,either by calling an extraordinary convent sometime in the near future or waiting for the next annual convent in September 2010.
It would seem this verdict declares null and void the decisions taken at this years Convent National with respect to (a) the initiation of women and / or affiliation of Sisters (as the French call us); and(b) the decisions taken pertaining to the expulsion of those involved in the initiations of the 5 female candidates last year.
If memory serves me well the vote was split almost 50-50 this year (54% against initation / affiliation of women), so whatever comes of this, GOdF has a struggle on its hands.
May Wisdom, Strength and Beauty guide their decisions.
S&F,
Middlesex
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