Masonic Forum Home Search Members Calendar Who's On Welcome Guest ( Login | Register ) Recent PostsRecent Posts Popular TopicsPopular Topics Home » General » The Reading/Watching Room » Good or Bad TV Coverage 61 posts, Page 1 of 712345»»» Good or Bad TV Coverage Rate Topic Display Mode Topic Options Author Message Mike MartinMike Martin Posted 11/01/2009 01:07 Past Master Group: Administrators Last Login: Yesterday @ 23:54 Posts: 1,394, Visits: 4,059 I thought I would share the hot topic on the UKMASONLIST at the moment with the Forum.These videos have generated a very heated debate amongst The Masons there. So I thought I would see what everyone here thinks.http://www.itvlocal.com/thamesvalley/news/?&void=275845 http://www.itvlocal.com/meridian/news/?player=MER_News_15&void=276401Please post whether you think these are a good idea or not. MikeThe Freemasons' Grand Charity My Mother Lodge website Join or just visit my Masonic Web RingSee my BALLS here Post #1741 Jim_WhiteJim_White Posted 11/01/2009 02:08 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: 12/01/2009 05:28 Posts: 2, Visits: 2 Mike, I rarely follow these links as they don't work on this machine (non MS), but did fire up the PC to see what the fuss was about on UKML. I think I fall into the in favour camp, the Brethren involved coming over well, and for once the media not on a hostile witchhunt. I would have prefered not to see the grip, but as someone in the other place said, taken out of context and without the word it's not that big a deal. S&F, Jim Earlsfield 5745 London Haling Manor 8310 Surrey Post #1745 IainIain Posted 11/01/2009 02:53 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 26/10/2009 16:13 Posts: 607, Visits: 709 I honestly have no idea why brethren feel they have to justify themselves in this way, do they not realize that when they do this sort of thing they come over as speaking for the whole fraternity, How do you expect someone entering the craft to uphold his obligations when he sees this garbage before he enters the craftI think to many people are making there own minds up which parts of there obligation they will pay heed to. I know for some reason one of the Grand lodges decided that the only parts of our degrees would be the grip and words covered by the obligation which unless you have a diluted obligation is not true. and that started a snowball effect ( i will post where i read of this when i find it) with people breaking there necks to be the next one to profit from the secrets of the craft. But when all the grand lodges around the world decide which parts of the obligation will be kept secret in there eyes it dosent take long to fit the whole picture together. Even although there is not one part of our ritual or obligations that cannot be found in books or online written by so called freemasons looking to profit from the craft, I know for a fact that the older Scottish lodges some of the oldest in the world hold each member strictly to there obligation, any member even seen giving a grip in a public place let alone on TV would be asked for his diplomas. and removed from the craft.what is more dumbfounding is that some Grand lodges as we have seen in other parts of the forum control what there brethren think and say but allow them to make a farce of freemasonry and openly show parts of it that they all took an obligation under strict penalties to keep hidden.My opinion after watching the clips amongst others I have seen, The brethren on display should be removed from the craft and the provincial and grand officers who agreed for them to do it should likewise be removed from the craft. And let the worlds freemasons see this political correctness, profiteering and power hungry people who think that they decide alone what is a secret will not be tolerated in freemasonry. It amazes me that secrets kept hidden and in trust for hundreds of years can be destroyed by a mindless power hungry few who claim power in freemasonryDisgusted, Dissolusioned, Embarrassed and Angry!As always the opinions are mine and not of the craft Cheers, IainDumbarton Kilwinning Lodge No 18 Post #1746 wolfywolfy Posted 11/01/2009 11:15 Journeyman Group: Forum Members Last Login: 02/07/2010 10:35 Posts: 189, Visits: 358 Generally Good I would say.There are a couple of bits i cringed at. one being obvious the other saying that we were a bit of a closed shop helping our members. this dodnt really ring true since 2 seconds before they were saying how much we give to charities and hospitals! lolOn the whole i thought it was quite well balanced, however that one bit!!! aggghhhh! oh well, i wouldnt be surprised if that was done by non masons for the camera anyway! lets face it there arent any real secrets any more! lol S+F James K U.G.L.E Stella Maris 7279 MMM, OSM Post #1757 Mike MartinMike Martin Posted 11/01/2009 12:12 Past Master Group: Administrators Last Login: Yesterday @ 23:54 Posts: 1,394, Visits: 4,059 This was my own response to the debate:Brethren all,This response is not aimed at anyone in particular but I hope will help many to understand why we need to get rid of our sometimes overly secretive side. I speak as a Mason of 15 years standing but more importantly as someone who started his Masonic journey on the other side of the fence. My first ever contact with Freemasonry was a book called "The Brotherhood" by a miscreant named Stephen Knight, I am the first Freemason in my family. The first few years of my travels were spent believing that the Masons were corrupt and involved in many conspiracies. The difference with me and the "Internet generation" was that I liked to read for myself and as I read more books on Freemasonry I realised my first impressions were wrong.Freemasonry has long been a target for conspiracy theorists, most notably the Abbe Barruel (Jesuit Priest) and John Robison (ex-Mason) in the 1790s and Leo Taxil (who can be personally credited with the Catholic Church's opposition to us) in 1890s. There were a rash of exposures and conspiracy laden tales during the 20th Century most notable of these being the Rev. Hannah's "Darkness Visible" and Stephen Knight's "The Brotherhood". This has never really done Freemasonry much damage as these were in the form of books which did not get much circulation at the time and so had little effect in shaping the public's opinion of the Craft. Therefore we didn't need to address them.However, what we all need to take account of now is the development, over the last 20 years, of the Internet. Nearly every home has a PC with the majority giving access to the most wonderful development in information communication since Caxton. However with the rise of it, these Authors are now bandied about along with others who although not anti-Masons also weren't Masons but wrote loads of mystic mumbo jumbo about Freemasonry (ie Manly Palmer Hall and WC Heckethorn just to mention 2). The conspiracists today scour these old books and misquote and remove words from their original context and build websites around them that mislead the Public and the Media about Freemasonry. Hundreds and even thousands of people visit these sites day in and day out and come away half believing that we are trying to take over the world (NWO) or the new iIluminati or, even worse, worship the devil in our Lodges.I wonder how many of the readers here remember or are even aware of the fact that in 1994 the Home Affairs Select Committee (this was here in England not Germany in the 1940s) carried out a public investigation, lasting nearly 2 years, based on the writings of Stephen Knight and his successor Martin Short (he actually appeared as an "expert witness") into the influence of Freemasonry in the Police and Judiciary. I do because I was busy writing to the Home Secretary through my MP decrying such a blatant desecration of one of this coutries oldest institutions. This investigation resulted (apart from the Media circus) in the fact that today when joining several professions you are required to disclose whether you are a Mason or not, no other groups just Freemasons.I wonder how many Freemasons bother to look into how long our "secrecy" has actually been around? I know I have and have seen hundreds of photographs and watched old newsreels from the 1920s and 30s showing Masons proudly processing in town centres, carrying out Cornerstone Ceremonies and wearing regalia in public. It was in the early 1940s that our secrecy appeared in response to events that were occurring across Europe.In this climate those who think about these things have realised that we have to do away with this artificial secrecy. It is not helping the Craft.Another thing is that these efforts are not aimed at convincing the Conspiracy Theorists that they are stupid (an impossible task, I know I've personally been trying for 15 years) but to stop the Public falling victim to these fantastic tales of Masonic wrongdoings. Just think about it, how can any man come to the Order "having formed a favourable opinion of it" if they don't know who we are and what we do and have only ever seen the material I've mentioned above? I am very proud to be a Freemason and people who know me, even only vaguely, know that I am a member so I know that my own actions in life(hopefully) reflect honour on the Craft. So I say these little television snippets are long overdue and most welcome. It is time for Freemasonry in Britain to resume its former place as a pillar of Society and to be recognised as such by non-Masons.Just my tuppence worth Brethren.S&F,Mike Martin,Freemason's Grand Charitywww.merseylodge5434.orgwww.thefreemason.com/forumBritish Isles Masonic web ring MikeThe Freemasons' Grand Charity My Mother Lodge website Join or just visit my Masonic Web RingSee my BALLS here Post #1759 IainIain Posted 11/01/2009 14:45 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 26/10/2009 16:13 Posts: 607, Visits: 709 [quote][b]This response is not aimed at anyone in particular but I hope will help many to understand why we need to get rid of our sometimes overly secretive side. [quote]I agree with freemasonry being more in the public eye, and our processions to service and for remembrance days and such being put back on the calender. and freemasons being more media friendly especialy when involved in local charity works etc, But not like this.If it keeps going as it is we will be aswell to have our meetings in public. You do not have to divulge masonic secrets to try and gain a public acceptance that can be achieved through charitable deeds. Cheers, IainDumbarton Kilwinning Lodge No 18 Post #1763 joeboyjoeboy Posted 11/01/2009 18:48 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: 2 days ago @ 11:34 Posts: 25, Visits: 506 I've followed the discussions and points of view on the UKMason list and having now seen the two videos I am pleasantly surprised. Yeah there were bits like the close up on the grip and parts of the third and first degree working tools - which I reckon added up to what 4 or 5seconds?? I say its not bad and I think for a change shows a very positive image of our craft. Its not to everyone's taste and those prats who think we are neo-con new world order b*ll*x will never believe anything else but for a PR exercise it works. Just a shame as is generally the case with such PR - where were the guys under 50? It would have been nice to see some young faces too..... S&F Joe JoeSW 9475 UGLE'J' 5705 UGLE295 A&AR E Post #1769 lauderdalelauderdale Posted 11/01/2009 20:02 Excellent Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 04/09/2010 18:37 Posts: 2,238, Visits: 4,272 THIS IS WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was delighted to see both of these clips, some old friends from Berkshire and all working in the spirit of Openness! English Freemasonry should have been doing this years ago! As far as I am concerned this is the way to go. I commend the PGM of Berkshire RW Bro Hooton and the Brethren of Khalsa Lodge! Let's have more of like this! Post #1775 Roy VRoy V Posted 11/01/2009 20:11 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 14/08/2010 17:30 Posts: 725, Visits: 1,176 Hear, hear, Mike! I completely agree with all you have said. I know what you have been up against when countering the attacks of the insidious, because I read your work frequently. The people who are trumpeting to the world via the internet what they (in most cases devoutly) believe, will tell everyone more about grips and tokens than Iain could credit - for instance, if Tony Blair picks his nose or scratches his nose when talking to the Pope, these are apparently "masonic signs" and proof that both are 33rd Degree Masons!None of this means I would encourage the public show of any proper grip, even if it is not in context. However, that is the only part of the videos which I have a complaint about. With so much cr4p spoken about FM by ignorant people with an anti bias, I welcome examples of the "real thing" discreetly on view, in this case, in conjunction with a (female) media representative who displayed an open mind.The multi-ethnic, multi-religious nature of FM was evident, and I for one was pleased to see the video reports.I want to respectfully comment on Iain's posts. Respectfully, because he is I understand a very experienced Mason, and a member of a very old and respected Lodge. Actually, though, if I can comprehend his post (and I wasn't too sure I could understand all of it), I am somewhat surprised - I thought that Scottish Freemasonry was much more open than in England, and that no-one had been encouraged to hide the fact of their membership at any time.*Obviously I did not know that in Scotland, more is kept from public gaze than under the UGLE banner. Therefore, Iain is rather askance at the images he saw. OK, a different GL approach. Fair enough.* As a point of interest: going back to the Nazi threat, could it be that Scotland is so far from the Channel that they were not so worried at that time? And maybe, with someone like Robbie Burns as an example of masonic membership, and FM membership not being a stigma (as it has been down here in the past), the fact of being a Freemason can be taken as normal, and therefore more than the "UGLE secrets" can be kept private? We in England are still paying the price of "coming out" after too much privacy.I would echo Iain, though, that a good start for openness would be more show in processing at decent occasions - eg at the Cenotaph? PM 5770Middlesex Post #1776 Tom CherupTom Cherup Posted 11/01/2009 20:29 Past Master Group: Moderators Last Login: Yesterday @ 16:42 Posts: 1,012, Visits: 2,845 I like what I saw. I hope in my time I get to see you to be a s mainstream as we are here over here. Tom Cherup Olive Branch Lodge #542 Dearborn, Michigan Olive Branch's web site Detroit Masonic Temple Post #1777 « Prev Topic | Next Topic » 61 posts, Page 1 of 712345»»» Reading This Topic Active Users: 0 (0 guests, 0 members, 0 anonymous members) Forum Moderators: TFM Admin, Mike Martin, Stu Thorpe, Tom Cherup Forum Jump... ---------------- Forum Home Search Members List Calendar Who's Online ---------------- Site Announcements |-- Announcements General |-- Greetings to our New Forumites |-- General Masonic Discussion |-- Masonic History (Legend -V- Fact) |-- Ritual - Esoteric & Symbols |-- Travellers' Diary & Dates |-- The Reading/Watching Room |-- The Appendant Degrees and Orders |-- Feminine & Co-Masonry |-- Knobs & Excrescences All times are GMT, Time now is 5:11am Powered By InstantForum.NET v4.1.4 © 2010 Execution: 0.114. 10 queries. Compression Disabled.
These videos have generated a very heated debate amongst The Masons there. So I thought I would see what everyone here thinks.
http://www.itvlocal.com/thamesvalley/news/?&void=275845 http://www.itvlocal.com/meridian/news/?player=MER_News_15&void=276401Please post whether you think these are a good idea or not.
MikeThe Freemasons' Grand Charity My Mother Lodge website Join or just visit my Masonic Web RingSee my BALLS here
I think to many people are making there own minds up which parts of there obligation they will pay heed to. I know for some reason one of the Grand lodges decided that the only parts of our degrees would be the grip and words covered by the obligation which unless you have a diluted obligation is not true. and that started a snowball effect ( i will post where i read of this when i find it) with people breaking there necks to be the next one to profit from the secrets of the craft. But when all the grand lodges around the world decide which parts of the obligation will be kept secret in there eyes it dosent take long to fit the whole picture together. Even although there is not one part of our ritual or obligations that cannot be found in books or online written by so called freemasons looking to profit from the craft, I know for a fact that the older Scottish lodges some of the oldest in the world hold each member strictly to there obligation, any member even seen giving a grip in a public place let alone on TV would be asked for his diplomas. and removed from the craft.
what is more dumbfounding is that some Grand lodges as we have seen in other parts of the forum control what there brethren think and say but allow them to make a farce of freemasonry and openly show parts of it that they all took an obligation under strict penalties to keep hidden.
My opinion after watching the clips amongst others I have seen, The brethren on display should be removed from the craft and the provincial and grand officers who agreed for them to do it should likewise be removed from the craft. And let the worlds freemasons see this political correctness, profiteering and power hungry people who think that they decide alone what is a secret will not be tolerated in freemasonry. It amazes me that secrets kept hidden and in trust for hundreds of years can be destroyed by a mindless power hungry few who claim power in freemasonry
Disgusted, Dissolusioned, Embarrassed and Angry!
As always the opinions are mine and not of the craft
Dumbarton Kilwinning Lodge No 18
There are a couple of bits i cringed at. one being obvious the other saying that we were a bit of a closed shop helping our members. this dodnt really ring true since 2 seconds before they were saying how much we give to charities and hospitals! lol
On the whole i thought it was quite well balanced, however that one bit!!! aggghhhh! oh well, i wouldnt be surprised if that was done by non masons for the camera anyway! lets face it there arent any real secrets any more! lol
Brethren all,This response is not aimed at anyone in particular but I hope will help many to understand why we need to get rid of our sometimes overly secretive side. I speak as a Mason of 15 years standing but more importantly as someone who started his Masonic journey on the other side of the fence. My first ever contact with Freemasonry was a book called "The Brotherhood" by a miscreant named Stephen Knight, I am the first Freemason in my family. The first few years of my travels were spent believing that the Masons were corrupt and involved in many conspiracies. The difference with me and the "Internet generation" was that I liked to read for myself and as I read more books on Freemasonry I realised my first impressions were wrong.Freemasonry has long been a target for conspiracy theorists, most notably the Abbe Barruel (Jesuit Priest) and John Robison (ex-Mason) in the 1790s and Leo Taxil (who can be personally credited with the Catholic Church's opposition to us) in 1890s. There were a rash of exposures and conspiracy laden tales during the 20th Century most notable of these being the Rev. Hannah's "Darkness Visible" and Stephen Knight's "The Brotherhood". This has never really done Freemasonry much damage as these were in the form of books which did not get much circulation at the time and so had little effect in shaping the public's opinion of the Craft. Therefore we didn't need to address them.
However, what we all need to take account of now is the development, over the last 20 years, of the Internet. Nearly every home has a PC with the majority giving access to the most wonderful development in information communication since Caxton. However with the rise of it, these Authors are now bandied about along with others who although not anti-Masons also weren't Masons but wrote loads of mystic mumbo jumbo about Freemasonry (ie Manly Palmer Hall and WC Heckethorn just to mention 2). The conspiracists today scour these old books and misquote and remove words from their original context and build websites around them that mislead the Public and the Media about Freemasonry. Hundreds and even thousands of people visit these sites day in and day out and come away half believing that we are trying to take over the world (NWO) or the new iIluminati or, even worse, worship the devil in our Lodges.I wonder how many of the readers here remember or are even aware of the fact that in 1994 the Home Affairs Select Committee (this was here in England not Germany in the 1940s) carried out a public investigation, lasting nearly 2 years, based on the writings of Stephen Knight and his successor Martin Short (he actually appeared as an "expert witness") into the influence of Freemasonry in the Police and Judiciary. I do because I was busy writing to the Home Secretary through my MP decrying such a blatant desecration of one of this coutries oldest institutions. This investigation resulted (apart from the Media circus) in the fact that today when joining several professions you are required to disclose whether you are a Mason or not, no other groups just Freemasons.I wonder how many Freemasons bother to look into how long our "secrecy" has actually been around? I know I have and have seen hundreds of photographs and watched old newsreels from the 1920s and 30s showing Masons proudly processing in town centres, carrying out Cornerstone Ceremonies and wearing regalia in public. It was in the early 1940s that our secrecy appeared in response to events that were occurring across Europe.In this climate those who think about these things have realised that we have to do away with this artificial secrecy. It is not helping the Craft.Another thing is that these efforts are not aimed at convincing the Conspiracy Theorists that they are stupid (an impossible task, I know I've personally been trying for 15 years) but to stop the Public falling victim to these fantastic tales of Masonic wrongdoings. Just think about it, how can any man come to the Order "having formed a favourable opinion of it" if they don't know who we are and what we do and have only ever seen the material I've mentioned above? I am very proud to be a Freemason and people who know me, even only vaguely, know that I am a member so I know that my own actions in life(hopefully) reflect honour on the Craft. So I say these little television snippets are long overdue and most welcome. It is time for Freemasonry in Britain to resume its former place as a pillar of Society and to be recognised as such by non-Masons.Just my tuppence worth Brethren.S&F,Mike Martin,Freemason's Grand Charitywww.merseylodge5434.orgwww.thefreemason.com/forumBritish Isles Masonic web ring
[quote]
I agree with freemasonry being more in the public eye, and our processions to service and for remembrance days and such being put back on the calender. and freemasons being more media friendly especialy when involved in local charity works etc, But not like this.
If it keeps going as it is we will be aswell to have our meetings in public. You do not have to divulge masonic secrets to try and gain a public acceptance that can be achieved through charitable deeds.
None of this means I would encourage the public show of any proper grip, even if it is not in context. However, that is the only part of the videos which I have a complaint about. With so much cr4p spoken about FM by ignorant people with an anti bias, I welcome examples of the "real thing" discreetly on view, in this case, in conjunction with a (female) media representative who displayed an open mind.
The multi-ethnic, multi-religious nature of FM was evident, and I for one was pleased to see the video reports.
I want to respectfully comment on Iain's posts. Respectfully, because he is I understand a very experienced Mason, and a member of a very old and respected Lodge. Actually, though, if I can comprehend his post (and I wasn't too sure I could understand all of it), I am somewhat surprised - I thought that Scottish Freemasonry was much more open than in England, and that no-one had been encouraged to hide the fact of their membership at any time.*
Obviously I did not know that in Scotland, more is kept from public gaze than under the UGLE banner. Therefore, Iain is rather askance at the images he saw. OK, a different GL approach. Fair enough.
* As a point of interest: going back to the Nazi threat, could it be that Scotland is so far from the Channel that they were not so worried at that time? And maybe, with someone like Robbie Burns as an example of masonic membership, and FM membership not being a stigma (as it has been down here in the past), the fact of being a Freemason can be taken as normal, and therefore more than the "UGLE secrets" can be kept private? We in England are still paying the price of "coming out" after too much privacy.
I would echo Iain, though, that a good start for openness would be more show in processing at decent occasions - eg at the Cenotaph?
Middlesex
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