Masonic Forum Home Search Members Calendar Who's On Welcome Guest ( Login | Register ) Recent PostsRecent Posts Popular TopicsPopular Topics Home » General » General Masonic Discussion » Percentage of those in HRA 22 posts, Page 1 of 3123»»» Percentage of those in HRA Rate Topic Display Mode Topic Options Author Message chestnutchestnut Posted 11/03/2010 11:28 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 10:20 Posts: 652, Visits: 2,093 Following on from Mikes posting regards members of GL. I note that there are 242,487 members of Craft of which 94,026 are in HRA which is under 40%. So as a UGLE member and HRA is the completion of the 3 degrees, why have so few done so? David Post #19473 joeboyjoeboy Posted 11/03/2010 11:36 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 12:20 Posts: 25, Visits: 500 David,To my mind as a member of HRA I can't undertsand why more don't feel inclined to join. I suppose alot might feel pressured and decide on that basis no, others may have picked up on the neagtive vibe from people who have for their own reasons decided not to join.From my perspective it is the completion of the 3 degrees (always felt cheated by them substituted secrets!) and maybe a bit more emphasis now on that might encourage more.It could of course be money, time and the ICBA'd mentatlity.Joe JoeSW 9475 UGLE'J' 5705 UGLE295 A&AR E Post #19474 chestnutchestnut Posted 11/03/2010 12:01 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 10:20 Posts: 652, Visits: 2,093 Hi Joe, I feel the same as you. I find that it is a matter of education for many. A lot of Brethren go through the Craft degrees and even take high office without fully understanding what the ceremonies teach or indeed what they are doing. So when it comes to HRA either they are not inclined or don't get it. I have been at FB where a Brother has said to another that its boring. When asked if they understand what its about they have no idea. Its strange that curiosity alone would not necessiate the recovery of those genuine secrets. I am in my second year as Z and from learning the exaltation you really get what the degree is about. In many respects I enjoy Chapter more than Craft. David Post #19477 joeboyjoeboy Posted 11/03/2010 12:25 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 12:20 Posts: 25, Visits: 500 David,You are correct when talking about 'learning' the ritual. I always liked HRA but as PS I had to learn a large chunk of the ceremony and it really came to life for me! As J there's less to do but each bit I learn adds another rung to the ladder.I suppose its all about education - the more we comps. talk freely and passionately about HRA to more we may pique the interest of those not yet exalted.Joe JoeSW 9475 UGLE'J' 5705 UGLE295 A&AR E Post #19482 gsudrongsudron Posted 11/03/2010 12:35 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 12:03 Posts: 65, Visits: 2,516 Hampshire & IoW have instigated an interesting scheme, (not sure if it is in other Provinces too) whereby the MEGS has appointed a 'Royal Arch Rep' in each craft lodge. The HRA Rep has been asked at least once in the lodge's year to be able to deliver a very short (<5mins) chat/talk on the HRA and why master masons should consider joining, obviously without giving too much away. I did my first chat in my lodge at our last meeting and the HRA now has 2 candidates for exaltation. Not just down to me I might add, they had been interested but being able to talk to me later tipped them over the edge. Talking to the master masons it appears that when they ask they either get told to slow down and wait or they get a form thrust at them straight away and then they feel pressured into joining. Part of the HRA Reps role is to talk openly about the HRA and answer any questions. We've also been told not to recruit to particular chapters but to help a prospective companion find a chapter that suits them, which I feel is very important in this day and age. There is no point a young working mason joining a chapter that starts at 4.30 when there may be another chapter in the same centre starting at 6pm. The scheme is in its first year so it will be interesting to hear the figures for the Province at the HRA Annual Convocation in June. Guy 7786, 9263, 8859 UGLE 946 GL-BFG 6664, 9263 RAC 54 MMM, 54 RAM 246 OSM 168 RCC 1096 AaAR ROoS PGL Beds & Northants AMD Godalming Council 185 Post #19484 chestnutchestnut Posted 11/03/2010 13:11 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 10:20 Posts: 652, Visits: 2,093 Guy thats a great concept and should, as you obviously do, allow access to any Chapter not pushing into one only. David Post #19494 joeboyjoeboy Posted 11/03/2010 13:12 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 12:20 Posts: 25, Visits: 500 Guy,In Herts Craft Prov it is the same - we have a lodge HRA bod there to promote and educate HRA. Also a candiate I proposed, soon after his raisng, received info from the PGM's office explaining HRA and how that was a good step should he want to take it.I also receved my Essex Mason magazine (my chapter is in essex so I receive it) and that had a HRA brochure as well.I do think there is a push to be more open about the HRA, what it stands for and why members of the craft would want join it.And that letter for the Herts PGM's office I mentioned above...... the chap who received it is being exalted in May. So I guess it is having an impact.Joe JoeSW 9475 UGLE'J' 5705 UGLE295 A&AR E Post #19495 bodbod Posted 11/03/2010 16:44 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: 26/07/2010 00:18 Posts: 302, Visits: 566 I've not joined because I don't really like the way it is done under UGLE (no veils, separated from Mark, the hard sell, etc) and I have never bought into the myth that it is the 'completion of the third degree' - which was dropped recently IIRC Post #19513 sojournersojourner Posted 11/03/2010 17:21 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 15:12 Posts: 363, Visits: 1,513 I joined Chapter in England in 1981. I confess that although I attended as often as time and circumstances would allow, it was not as much a priority degree for me as was the Mark (becoming WM for the 1st time in 1984). I liked the ritual well enough (until it was hacked up in 1989) and enjoyed the visual aspect, but it took second place to Mark which remains my favourite.When I moved to Scotland, I affiliated (joined) a Scottish Chapter. They still retain all the key aspects of the degree (and the ones done away with in England) and of course it includes Mark and Excellent Master's (Passing of the Veils). It makes far more sense to me now than it did in England. Perhaps that is because I was 1st Sojourner and thus had to understand the degree in depth to carry out that role. Also, having joined Cryptic, the Hiramic/KST's circle is complete and makes far more sense as a whole, than the individual elements did in isolation.Although the Mark is part of the Scottish RA (and also Craft), I have chosen to remain active in an English Mark Lodge and have just come out of the Chair again after two years as WM.I think there is a tendency to try and "rush" a candidate into too many degrees, too soon, and before he fully understands the 1st three. There is also a tendency to try and get him into degrees mistakenly considered "more important" than others. I have seen several candidates over the years who have "burnt out" because they became over committed too early on, found that they had too many degrees to fully do justice to and thus did justice to none. In many cases, either having to resign from degrees or even ceasing to attend their Craft Lodges.The HRA is a lovely and important degree. Encouragement to join in due time is fine, but we all know Brn. of whom you only have to ask the time and they "just happen to have a form with them that you must sign"! Roy L."SELUME PROFERRE" Post #19516 gsudrongsudron Posted 11/03/2010 17:22 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 12:03 Posts: 65, Visits: 2,516 bod (11/03/2010) I have never bought into the myth that it is the 'completion of the third degree' - which was dropped recently IIRC It was dropped and now its back in again! This to-ing and fro-ing is doing more harm than good and just adding to the general confusion. Personally I would always advise Mark first then the HRA but history being as it is..... And yes, missing the ceremony of the veils is a real shame. There is one Chapter in Hants and IoW that works the veils but not often, probably once in every couple of years. Guy 7786, 9263, 8859 UGLE 946 GL-BFG 6664, 9263 RAC 54 MMM, 54 RAM 246 OSM 168 RCC 1096 AaAR ROoS PGL Beds & Northants AMD Godalming Council 185 Post #19517 « Prev Topic | Next Topic » 22 posts, Page 1 of 3123»»» Reading This Topic Active Users: 0 (0 guests, 0 members, 0 anonymous members) Forum Moderators: TFM Admin, Mike Martin, Stu Thorpe, Tom Cherup Forum Jump... ---------------- Forum Home Search Members List Calendar Who's Online ---------------- Site Announcements |-- Announcements General |-- Greetings to our New Forumites |-- General Masonic Discussion |-- Masonic History (Legend -V- Fact) |-- Ritual - Esoteric & Symbols |-- Travellers' Diary & Dates |-- The Reading/Watching Room |-- The Appendant Degrees and Orders |-- Feminine & Co-Masonry |-- Knobs & Excrescences All times are GMT, Time now is 4:14pm Powered By InstantForum.NET v4.1.4 © 2010 Execution: 0.067. 9 queries. Compression Disabled.
To my mind as a member of HRA I can't undertsand why more don't feel inclined to join. I suppose alot might feel pressured and decide on that basis no, others may have picked up on the neagtive vibe from people who have for their own reasons decided not to join.
From my perspective it is the completion of the 3 degrees (always felt cheated by them substituted secrets!) and maybe a bit more emphasis now on that might encourage more.
It could of course be money, time and the ICBA'd mentatlity.
Joe
You are correct when talking about 'learning' the ritual. I always liked HRA but as PS I had to learn a large chunk of the ceremony and it really came to life for me! As J there's less to do but each bit I learn adds another rung to the ladder.
I suppose its all about education - the more we comps. talk freely and passionately about HRA to more we may pique the interest of those not yet exalted.
In Herts Craft Prov it is the same - we have a lodge HRA bod there to promote and educate HRA.
Also a candiate I proposed, soon after his raisng, received info from the PGM's office explaining HRA and how that was a good step should he want to take it.
I also receved my Essex Mason magazine (my chapter is in essex so I receive it) and that had a HRA brochure as well.
I do think there is a push to be more open about the HRA, what it stands for and why members of the craft would want join it.
And that letter for the Herts PGM's office I mentioned above...... the chap who received it is being exalted in May. So I guess it is having an impact.
When I moved to Scotland, I affiliated (joined) a Scottish Chapter. They still retain all the key aspects of the degree (and the ones done away with in England) and of course it includes Mark and Excellent Master's (Passing of the Veils). It makes far more sense to me now than it did in England. Perhaps that is because I was 1st Sojourner and thus had to understand the degree in depth to carry out that role. Also, having joined Cryptic, the Hiramic/KST's circle is complete and makes far more sense as a whole, than the individual elements did in isolation.
Although the Mark is part of the Scottish RA (and also Craft), I have chosen to remain active in an English Mark Lodge and have just come out of the Chair again after two years as WM.
I think there is a tendency to try and "rush" a candidate into too many degrees, too soon, and before he fully understands the 1st three. There is also a tendency to try and get him into degrees mistakenly considered "more important" than others. I have seen several candidates over the years who have "burnt out" because they became over committed too early on, found that they had too many degrees to fully do justice to and thus did justice to none. In many cases, either having to resign from degrees or even ceasing to attend their Craft Lodges.
The HRA is a lovely and important degree. Encouragement to join in due time is fine, but we all know Brn. of whom you only have to ask the time and they "just happen to have a form with them that you must sign"!
"SELUME PROFERRE"
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