Masonic Forum Home Search Members Calendar Who's On Welcome Guest ( Login | Register ) Recent PostsRecent Posts Popular TopicsPopular Topics Home » General » Masonic History (Legend -V- Fact) » Why do some Freemasons think we have a... 162 posts, Page 5 of 17«««34567»»» Why do some Freemasons think we have a... Rate Topic Display Mode Topic Options Author Message Brother_TJBrother_TJ Posted 23/06/2009 01:30 Journeyman Group: Forum Members Last Login: 08/03/2010 22:50 Posts: 134, Visits: 169 Misconception.Just like the 'Witchcraft is Satanism' misconception, but the truth is witchcraft predates Christianity and therefore do not believe in Satan. Yet, you can have Satanic witches but are not be confused with Seax-Wicans (Saxon Wiccans) or Druid witches.Knights Templar and the Masonic Templar Knights are a different fish and that fish may swim in either fresh water or salt water and rarely do they adapt, therefore they are different. --Bro. "TJ" 3ºAmethyst Lodge No. 2, Orient of Tulsa, Oklahoma and Isis Lodge No. 3, Orient of Oklahoma City, OklahomaAmerican Federation of Human RightsThurifer/Deputy Orator (Invested 2010) *Amethyst Lodge* TulsaDeputy Secretary/Junior Deacon (Assigned by RWM under Dispensation 2010) *Isis Lodge* Oklahoma City'Opinions expressed in this forum are solely the discretion of the author and not of the American Co-Freemasonry organization, American Federation of Human Rights/American Co-Freemasonry. Unless there is references to facts and history to the best of this author's knowledge.' Thank You Post #9095 bob cbob c Posted 24/06/2009 22:09 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: 04/03/2010 12:49 Posts: 273, Visits: 499 Terry (20/05/2009)absence of evidence is not evidence of absenceHi Terry,Does this not pave the way for anyone, to make anything up, wthout evidence or research?This has happened in several modern books that have been written about our order and the KT. One claimed that there were 33 degrees in the Royal Arch.Chris,Perhaps you have the rituals for themMy own opinion is that Scottish Freemasonry came from the Incorporations as they, plus the lodges, evolved side by side at the time. Then England pinched the lodge idea regards bob Post #9211 TerryTerry Posted 25/06/2009 03:00 Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: 24/02/2010 05:40 Posts: 588, Visits: 746 bob c (24/06/2009)Terry (20/05/2009)absence of evidence is not evidence of absenceHi Terry,Does this not pave the way for anyone, to make anything up, wthout evidence or research?This has happened in several modern books that have been written about our order and the KT. One claimed that there were 33 degrees in the Royal Arch.Chris,Perhaps you have the rituals for themMy own opinion is that Scottish Freemasonry came from the Incorporations as they, plus the lodges, evolved side by side at the time. Then England pinched the lodge idea Hi Bob C,Yes you are correct and it has happened, but also if we take Troy as an example, what I was stating is correct too, and I tend to agree that it appears that freemasonry as we know came from Scotland RegardsTerryTamworth 652Australia Post #9235 lauderdalelauderdale Posted 25/06/2009 09:42 Excellent Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 16:42 Posts: 1,920, Visits: 3,583 Was not Freemasonry, however it originated way back in history, brought from Scotland to England at the time of the Restoration of the Monarchy by General Monck's soldiers? General Monck was to become Duke of Albemarle for his part in restoring Charles II to the Throne. Post #9248 ANewton1975ANewton1975 Posted 02/09/2009 15:22 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: 02/09/2009 15:04 Posts: 2, Visits: 3 I believe the idea that the masons are derived at least in some part from the Templar order is based primarily on the obligations and oaths taken during the 3 degree rituals of the Blue Lodge.It is quite apparent to most people that these obligations are not in line with a group of stone cutters trying to "protect the secrets of their craft". If studied carefully and looked at with an open mind, one can see the associative meanings in each of the degrees and obligations and how they would have certainly found a place in the Templar Order after October 13, 1307.I am a bit of a history buff myself and I am hoping to get into some good discussions here. Alex D. Newton Master Mason Indiana Harbor Lodge No. 686 Highland, Indiana Post #11479 Brother_TJBrother_TJ Posted 04/09/2009 15:30 Journeyman Group: Forum Members Last Login: 08/03/2010 22:50 Posts: 134, Visits: 169 In our Order we don't honor the Knights Templar (3.d) in the York Rites. No invitation, no Preceptories, no Order of the Malta.We have the Mark, Ark, Holy Royal Arch. As for any Chapter (Commandery in the U.S.) in which you are ask to join (called upon) we don't have this, to my knowledge.I am not a member of the Holy Royal Arch which I have heard is a massive undertaking from what I heard. I can't imagine what the Order of the Preceptories (Commandery) is like. There is no direct relation with the historic KT and the Masonic KT. --Bro. "TJ" 3ºAmethyst Lodge No. 2, Orient of Tulsa, Oklahoma and Isis Lodge No. 3, Orient of Oklahoma City, OklahomaAmerican Federation of Human RightsThurifer/Deputy Orator (Invested 2010) *Amethyst Lodge* TulsaDeputy Secretary/Junior Deacon (Assigned by RWM under Dispensation 2010) *Isis Lodge* Oklahoma City'Opinions expressed in this forum are solely the discretion of the author and not of the American Co-Freemasonry organization, American Federation of Human Rights/American Co-Freemasonry. Unless there is references to facts and history to the best of this author's knowledge.' Thank You Post #11549 Alan CampbellAlan Campbell Posted 04/09/2009 22:46 Past Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 20:06 Posts: 979, Visits: 1,128 TJ, You have said that your order does have commanderies, and that it has orders to which you are NOT a member. How can you know for sure that it has no connection whatsoever with the KT's if you are not in it? Post #11559 Russell HollandRussell Holland Posted 06/09/2009 01:42 Fellow Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 22:43 Posts: 217, Visits: 1,329 Brother_TJ (04/09/2009)There is no direct relation with the historic KT and the Masonic KT. That is probably true in the public domain, but what if there were bloodline rituals - held in families? These might be referred to generically as "sons of" orders. Could it be that some "sons of" rituals are restricted to particular clans or families? Could there have been some specific families behind the KT which maintained their knowledge and rituals ready for another attempt at establishing external orders? Post #11590 lauderdalelauderdale Posted 06/09/2009 09:13 Excellent Master Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 16:42 Posts: 1,920, Visits: 3,583 Bro Russell, I to feel that those KTs who escaped after 1307 may well have gone underground and secretly maintained their traditions and knowledge veiled in allegories and legends. These may well have informed the nascent Freemasonry in Scotland and which came down to England at the Restoration of the Monarcy. Alas, like many matters Masonic, there is no definitive proof in the shape of documents etc to prove or disprove this. Post #11591 AJMAJM Posted 16/09/2009 10:47 Apprentice Group: Forum Members Last Login: 2 days ago @ 04:40 Posts: 31, Visits: 414 In answer to the question "Why do some Freemasons think we have a connection to the Knights Templar?", I can only say that you do indeed have such a connection, it just isn't where anyone expected it to be.* It is a wonderful testament to the order's ability to grab hold of something ancient and allow its influence to be felt after many centuries of operation, speculation and controversy. AJM * There is no evidence of a Templar exodus to Scotland, nor is there even a hint of truth behind the (relatively recent) legends of a bloodline. In fact, the truth is fairly prosaic and has so far left no room for doubt in the minds of those who have analysed the paper. ________________________________________________________ Official Website Post #11966 « Prev Topic | Next Topic » 162 posts, Page 5 of 17«««34567»»» Reading This Topic Active Users: 0 (0 guests, 0 members, 0 anonymous members) No members currently viewing this topic. Forum Moderators: TFM Admin, Mike Martin, Stu Thorpe, Tom Cherup Forum Jump... ---------------- Forum Home Search Members List Calendar Who's Online ---------------- Site Announcements |-- Announcements General |-- Fraternal Greetings to our New Forumites |-- General Masonic Discussion |-- Masonic History (Legend -V- Fact) |-- Ritual - Esoteric & Symbols |-- Travellers' Diary & Dates |-- The Reading/Watching Room |-- The Appendant Degrees and Orders |-- Feminine & Co-Masonry |-- Knobs & Excrescences All times are GMT, Time now is 10:46pm Powered By InstantForum.NET v4.1.4 © 2010 Execution: 0.109. 7 queries. Compression Disabled.
Just like the 'Witchcraft is Satanism' misconception, but the truth is witchcraft predates Christianity and therefore do not believe in Satan. Yet, you can have Satanic witches but are not be confused with Seax-Wicans (Saxon Wiccans) or Druid witches.
Knights Templar and the Masonic Templar Knights are a different fish and that fish may swim in either fresh water or salt water and rarely do they adapt, therefore they are different.
--Bro. "TJ" 3ºAmethyst Lodge No. 2, Orient of Tulsa, Oklahoma and Isis Lodge No. 3, Orient of Oklahoma City, OklahomaAmerican Federation of Human RightsThurifer/Deputy Orator (Invested 2010) *Amethyst Lodge* Tulsa
Deputy Secretary/Junior Deacon (Assigned by RWM under Dispensation 2010) *Isis Lodge* Oklahoma City
'Opinions expressed in this forum are solely the discretion of the author and not of the American Co-Freemasonry organization, American Federation of Human Rights/American Co-Freemasonry. Unless there is references to facts and history to the best of this author's knowledge.' Thank You
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
Hi Terry,
Does this not pave the way for anyone, to make anything up, wthout evidence or research?
This has happened in several modern books that have been written about our order and the KT. One claimed that there were 33 degrees in the Royal Arch.
Chris,
Perhaps you have the rituals for them
My own opinion is that Scottish Freemasonry came from the Incorporations as they, plus the lodges, evolved side by side at the time.
Then England pinched the lodge idea
Hi Bob C,
Yes you are correct and it has happened, but also if we take Troy as an example, what I was stating is correct too, and I tend to agree that it appears that freemasonry as we know came from Scotland
It is quite apparent to most people that these obligations are not in line with a group of stone cutters trying to "protect the secrets of their craft". If studied carefully and looked at with an open mind, one can see the associative meanings in each of the degrees and obligations and how they would have certainly found a place in the Templar Order after October 13, 1307.
I am a bit of a history buff myself and I am hoping to get into some good discussions here.
We have the Mark, Ark, Holy Royal Arch. As for any Chapter (Commandery in the U.S.) in which you are ask to join (called upon) we don't have this, to my knowledge.
I am not a member of the Holy Royal Arch which I have heard is a massive undertaking from what I heard. I can't imagine what the Order of the Preceptories (Commandery) is like. There is no direct relation with the historic KT and the Masonic KT.
For Email Marketing you can trust