The Freemason Forum

On the other hand, Steve Foley in his local councillor guise, or the Master and Treasurer of my own Lodge, or somewhere in between, a NZ GL, need verification of the "big fish" within that much smaller pond, because they are so much closer to their juniors/'subordinates' (neither being the right word), and thus they are voted for on a personal basis.

Consider the Chancellor of the Exchequer - appointed by the PM without my vote, and my Lodge Treasurer, who I do have a say in.

Even though I am familiar and matey with some of the Middlesex APGMs, I do not expect to have a big say in the appointment of PMK as my PGM.

** I refer, of course, to the Greater London Council election of 1981.  Moderate Andrew McIntosh won the election, became Leader, and was replaced by "Red Ken" the next day.

PM 5770

Middlesex

Is the "work" performed in the Temple affected by the supposed "democratic" (or not) nature of the systems that individuals Masons are affiliated to?

Dumbarton Kilwinning Lodge No 18

Hi Mopsey

Your comment implies that we can't do any Masonic work without a candidate. Whilst that's the view of some Lodges it's not universally true.

I'll have to think about Mark's question.

S&F, Jules

Edited for spelling

Ok, given it far more thought.

I can see your point about morale within the Lodge being affected by frictions caused by notions of democracy or lack of it. It may also be "politick" to be diplomatic with regards contact with other members of the same Lodge GL etc but I was thinking more about the "vibe" within the Temple.

It has been suggested by others that there is a resonance or even an unheard melody played by the supposed incantations or order of words within the ritual. Whether that is true, or it is fanciful pretention I have no idea. But there is no denying there is a rhythm to the text that is most obvious when the Lodge has opened in perfect calm and when the most effort has been put into correct memorisation and delivery of the ritual. (The mood falls flat on it's face when someone is so obviously reading it, like for instance a stand in Inner Guard)

Within that context, is the mood of perfect calm interrupted or even halted by the concept of say, for instance, the UGLE not electing its Grand Master? Do the "players" in the allegory of temple building feel less equal to the task in hand or to each other just because they didn't get to vote in some election external to their endeavors?

I would suggest that such unbecoming thoughts should have been laid to rest by the address to the Brethren straight after a new Masters Installation.

Some are there to teach but all are there to learn.

Discussion of "Democracy" therefore has no place within a Tyled Lodge I humbly submit. Especially as all those present bow to their chosen Supreme being and cheerfully submit to his will as revealed. Or so the story goes.. 

Sorry Mopsey, missed this one first time around. Not ignoring you, honest. :P

Are you suggesting that some on the outside see it as "socially responsible" to interfere within the affairs of the UGLE, an organisation they are not/ have not been members of? Do you think they think they are "saving" those in the UGLE that are, as they see it, slaving under an oppressive regime that keeps them obedient with fear and threat of sanction?

An interesting concept. Perhaps those that are supposedly trapped can see for themselves they are not, and wilfully continue by free choice and use of their own intelligence to enjoy their membership.

I would suggest they certainly don't need or want saving. :P:D

Hey there Jules.

UGLE Lodges doing Masonic work without candidates? Oh my word, don't let that secret out, you would be killing off years of urban myths and anti UGLE propaganda by saying things like that.

(Fancy some contraband? I have a copy of the Ist and 2nd degree lectures here. Don't tell anyone, but I have seen both presented at Tyled Lodge meetings)